God, Revelations some thoughts…

Abstract

The perception of epiphanies is considered to be central to the spiritual experience in religious circles.In modern times, people like J Krishnamurti, Ramana Maharshi are believed to perceive epiphanies.

This article tries to explain epiphanies in physical terms. It categorizes the existence into known, unknown and unknowable parts. While the everyday experiences fall into the category of “The Known”, epiphanies and super-natural powers can be viewed as “The Unknown”.  The author argues there is a  part of the existence that will never be known by humans. This part is called “The Unknowable”.

Epiphanies

Epiphanies are also called revelations. Often, they are associated with a self-less state of mind. A common aspect reported about epiphanies is “direct sensory contact with external objects without the mediation of self”. This sensory contact is reported to be more “real” than the everyday reality. The self, mentioned here, is the ‘self-conscious center’ which is made of human thought. The ‘self’ oversees all the actions and thoughts of a person.

Composition of thought

The self is like a spindle woven with the thread of thought. The thought, in turn, is made of mental representations of external objects(eg: hill, tree), like words, images, and other sensory inputs like sounds, touch, smell and temperature.  So, these sensory inputs are representative symbols of the actual real world objects. But, they are not the objects themselves. The symbols are extracted from an already completed interaction with the world. These symbols are of the past. Hence the thought is made of symbols from the past. Though made of thought, the self can view its own thoughts on the screen of consciousness.

The consciousness is like the light of a torch focused on a wall. Sitting inside the boat of the world, the consciousness always travels along with the stream called “the time of the world”, and hence it exists only in ‘present’.  It contains images emanating from the real-time (present) events along with the thoughts of the past and conjectures about the future. If the mind does not store past images, all the thought vanishes.  When the data base of thought does not exist, it can’t conjure future. Then the mind exists in present only. In that case, the consciousness is occupied by things of present alone. The boundaries between past, present and future are created by thought. Thought is stored in memory. The contents stored in the memory act as past. The projections made from the past act as future. When memory vanishes, the thought disappears. When memory vanishes so does the past. Thought disappears along with the past. When past disappears, its projection, i.e. the future also vanishes.

Without thought only ‘present’ exists from an individual’s point of view.  The subjective time vanishes.

The consciousness travels along with external physical sequence of events. So, the consciousness travels with physical time.

Making of thought

Immediately after birth, an infant is not able to differentiate the objects in the external world from it’s self. Initially, when it starts getting sensory inputs, it perceives without recording much.  After sometime it records the images sounds and so on. Once it learns the language, it tags the images, sounds and smells in its mind with the words and symbols of the language it has learnt.  In the process of learning the language, it builds its small mental dictionary of words. Later, as a “grown up”, whenever it perceives an objects, it retrieves the corresponding word from its brain. So, the actual object shares the“screen of the consciousness” of the person with the verbal representation of it (the object) simultaneously. If a person’s vocabulary is week, and he does not know what a particular object is called as, then, he retrieves the image of the object from his mind. This image occupies the stage of his conscious mind along with the real object. There is no point of time where his consciousness is completely occupied with the real-time object without sharing it with a mental image.

Figure1: The Composition of Self

Suppose a person is following a flying bird with concentration. As long as he knows he is watching a bird, his consciousness is shared by the actual real-time bird with his mental representation of it. When the observer watches the bird without any interference from his mental images, he purely perceives the bird. When he is in a state of ‘pure-perception’, he even does not know it is a bird. Pure-perception is a state not colored by thought. So, there does not exist a perceiver in this state. If we take the analogy of a camcorder, the perceivers mind never directly operates in the simple ‘View only’ mode. The mind always mixes the previously recorded visuals with the real time images.

The Driving force behind ‘self’

Thought makes the self. The self of a man enhances the survival at individual level. Self is the amalgamation of human instincts, emotions, drives and wishes. The thought enabled by self, is used for planning ahead for a rainy day. It helps in better survival of human beings. It enables man to organize. It spurs the scientific inventions and all manmade things. But the flip side of thought is “the formation of a psychological world”. The psychological world separates man from the direct perception of reality. It perpetuates attitudes, feelings by storing their representative symbols in brain.

Epiphany and Effort

Effort in psychological domain can’t make man to get into a self-less state, as the effort originates from the self. Some people stumble into this state due to an unknown reason. Those people need not be pious. They may not be do-gooders. Science has not understood what triggers this state as yet.  In this state, the world appears in a different light. That does not make it a Godly and mystical state.

Epiphanies and social relevance:

Are epiphanies useful in solving any social issue like poverty, environment, at least by making the individual contribute?

According to UG Krishnamurthi, epiphanies do not have ant political, religious or spiritual implications. Further a person may experience epiphanies despite his personality and character. So the societal problems need to be addressed by the political and religious leaders either at a system level or at an individual level.

Epiphany and Animals

Small animals in the lower echelons of evolution do not have thought. So, are they in an epiphany-like state? It is a possibility. Though, there is a difference. In humans, the Epiphany state co-exists with a thoughtful mind. The usual thoughtful mind springs into action on demand from external events. Once the self becomes active, it can retrieve the images stored during epiphany and play it. The playback from epiphany state is not an epiphany, for the self is there playing. In an epiphany state, though the images are stored, they are not played back.  In an epiphany state there is no “knowing”, no “awareness”. It has only “pure-perception”.

Epiphany – Transmission

Can epiphany state be transmitted fully using words? No, epiphany needs absence of thoughts and thus absence of words.  A wordless state can’t be transmitted using words.

Epiphany – Various Methods

Whether the selfless state can be reached through different methods like drugs, surgery of the brain, genetic engineering, or a new technique of meditation in future is a matter of conjecture.

The Super-natural and “The Unknown” 

Some people claim super natural abilities like telepathy. Scientific consensus eluded these claims. Assuming such abilities exist, they could be due to phenomena not understood by science yet. Some persons  attract iron with their body. Science has not understood the phenomenon yet. This state is also akin to the super natural powers claimed. Science may be able to prove it in the future. With the advent of nuero imaging it will not be impossible to prove or disprove such claims conclusively.  Similar logic applies to all supernatural abilities of humans.

The Unknowable

There is an unknowable part of the existence that humans may never know about. While the unknown part of the existence can be known by the advances in science and technology, unknowable parts can never be known by humans.

Limitations of human organism

Man is a biological organism that exists in a three dimensional world (Including time it’s a four dimensional world. A world with five or more dimensions is beyond the reach and existence of man, though theories like string theory postulate that). Its perceptions are limited by its senses, and its thought is made of electrochemical reactions. Man must have limitations in understanding and proving the phenomena that fall outside physical existence.

The universe made of Time

Big bang theory is the most popular theory that explains the origin of the universe. It proposes, “The space and time are created after the point of singularity,” and “the consequent causal chain has formed the universe that we live in today”. So according to this theory the universe in made ‘of’ time and space. It’s not made ’in’ time and space. The universe is made of the fabric of space-time like a tea cup made of  porcelain. The rules about the forces of the universe are immutable and every rule is causally traced back to the singularity of big bang theory.  Cause precedes effect. Cause and effect both happen in time. But, before big bang there was no time, there was no space, though that state is a bit difficult to imagine. Thus, there was no cause for the big bang.

The Universe made in Time   

Alternately, it can be assumed that space and time existed before big bang. At this point, additional (five or more) dimensions can be proposed. The creation of universe can be assumed to have been done in the time that pertains to the fifth dimension. Even if the origin of the universe happened in a fifth dimension, still the question of what is the ‘cause of the cause’ that created universe remains. This argument can be extended to any number of dimensions. Assuming many numbers of dimensions does not take away the question “what caused the creator of the universe?”

The statement, “Universe is acausal,” though it sounds a bit awkward, can only answer the question about the origin of the existence.   A thing without start or end is not that usual, but not difficult to explain logically. On the circumference of a ring, we can’t fix a starting point and ending point. They are imaginary.  Modern quantum physics accepts acausal phenomena like vacuum fluctuations which are acausal. Though physical objects look stable, at a  subatomic level virtual particles like electron-positron pairs are acausally created and destroyed on a microseconds scale. The worldly objects are like a river whose shape looks stable but whose content (water) keeps on changing at any point in time. An incident which looks a causal in a three dimensional world may be causal in a higher dimensional world.

Whether the universe is made”of time” or “in time”, the search for the origin of existence ends in an acausal root.

 Time-collapse and super-time

A movie role while being played has its sequence of incidents and thus simulates time. To demonstrate the collapse of time, each frame of a movie role can be cut and all the frames can be spread on the floor of a room laterally. Now, for an observer, all the usually sequential incidents appear at the same instance. From the perspective of the observer, the incidents have no time gap between them. They just exist. The observer has access to any incident irrespective of its sequence. Similarly if we assume a super-time, all the happenings of the universe freeze into a single instance in super-time. They simply exist. They do not have a start or end.

The relation between the Known, The Unknown and The Unknowable

We humans are three dimensional creatures. We do not have access to five dimensions or beyond. We may propose concepts about the metaphysical world that has many dimensions (like string theory). We might prove them theoretically. But, to prove them practically we need to prove the theories about many dimensions in a three dimensional world ultimately. This is an impossible task. Thus, there will always be a world that can’t be perceived or understood by man. That’s the unknowable world or the Metaphysical world. Physical world is run by unchangeable rules. If God made the rules, we do not know why he does not change those rules. If God is part of that unknowable, metaphysical world he also must be undefinable.

Figure 2 : Physical world

Figure3: The existence

The physical world comprises of two parts. The Known and The Unknown.  The progress in science and technology unravels The Unknown and explains it in terms of the known.

The existence is comprised of the physical world and the unknowable metaphysical world. “The Unknowable” can never be touched by the humans.  The epiphanies and supernatural powers manifest within the boundaries of the physical world. Epiphanies are about direct perception. Direct perception with its all visual and audible processes, still falls in the realm of physicality. The triggers to the epiphanies and super natural powers could be either unknown or unknowable. The unknown triggers could be unraveled by science in the future. But the unknowable things that exist in metaphysical realm can never be understood by man.

Is God there?

Before saying yes or no to this question, one needs to define God. If God is indefinable, all aspects of him should be undefined. One can not say, “We can not understand his doings”, and still believe, “God is kind”, “God is powerful”. Etc.

If God is kind, the natural disasters and the subsequent destruction begs an explanation. If God is powerful, then his inability to change rules of nature stands unexplained.

Some people claim God is good, but the problem is with Man. These same people believe Man is made by God. If man is made by God, he owns the responsibility of Man’s deeds also.

One of the disclaimers of the believers is, “as Man has free will, God need not own the misdeeds of Man”. It’s debatable if man has a free-will, as his will is shaped by sundry circumstances and forces of nature.

Assuming man has free will, that free will is given by God. Again, God can not evade the responsibility.

If God is just a mechanism which does it’s action with out like or dislike, then he is similar to a physical rule.

The definition of good and bad are relative and circumstantial. They change depending on place and time. They are man made. They predate to the notion of God. Man has to have an idea of good. After that only he can assume God as an embodiment of goodness.

ప్రకటనలు

39 thoughts on “God, Revelations some thoughts…”

  1. Excellent, Man!! never saw something so rich on these Telugu blogs!! Extraordinary!! never thought, there would be people to reason like this in these blogs!! you are just amazing and refreshing!!! please continue!!!!! you just rock!!! what a reason and explanation, man!!! can’t help but appreciate you!!! finally a visionary and more than that, in these stinking Telugu Blogs!!!

    మెచ్చుకోండి

                  1. అలాగా! మరి ప్రతిసారీ యుగాంతం ఎలా జరిగిందని చెప్పారు . ఇప్పుడు ఒక్కోసారి యుగాంతం ఎలా వచ్చేస్తుందో వర్ణిస్తున్నారు కదా ? ఇదంతా మరి ప్రకృతే కదా ? సరే ఇది అనడమే కాని మనం చూడలేదు అంటారా . అసలు ప్రకృతిలో జరిగే వాటిని నమ్మించడానికె ఈ దేవుళ్ళు కధలు పుట్టించారా ?లేక దేవుళ్ళని వ్యతిరేకించేవారు ప్రకృతిని పుట్టించారా ?

                    మెచ్చుకోండి

                    1. “లేక దేవుళ్ళని వ్యతిరేకించేవారు ప్రకృతిని పుట్టించారా ?”
                      ఆ అవసరం వారికి లేదు. మనిషే ప్రకృతి లో భాగం. మిగిలిన ప్రకృతి లోని వివిధ దృగ్విషయాలను నిరూపించవచ్చు. perception అనేది సత్యాన్వేషణ లో ఉన్నత స్థానం లో ఉంటుంది.physicality is another aspect nature that is the hall mark of reality. ప్రకృతి లోని భాగాలన్నీ MLT కలిగి ఉంటాయి.
                      కథలు మన అలోచనలలో మత్రమే ఉండేవి. ఆలోచనలు ప్రకృతి లో భాగమైన మనిషి మెదడు లోనివి. ఆ విధం గా కథలు కూడా ప్రకృతి లోని భాగమే! ప్రకృతి గురించిన కథలు కూడా ఉండవచ్చు. మానవజాతి లేకపోయినా ప్రకృతి ఐనటువంటి విశ్వమూ, గేలాక్సీలూ, చెట్లూ, పక్షులూ అన్నీ ఉంటాయి. మానవజాతి లేకపోతే కథలు మాత్రం ఉండవు.అనగా ప్రకృతి లేకపోతే కథలు లేవు. కానీ కథలు లేక పోయినా ప్రకృతి ఉంటుంది. .బ్లా…బ్లా..బ్లా…బ్లా..

                      మెచ్చుకోండి

  2. Very glad that you’re back to blog 🙂

    Is thought different from consciousness ? can we not posses thought that springs up only in present? how then is ‘life’ different from ‘non-life’ if there were no thought and only consciousness?

    I think the omni*** attributes that we ascribe to God are result of cultural interactions and are questioned by “can the omniscient god who knows his future mind have the power to change it?” , ” can an omnipotent god create a stone that he can’t lift ?”. In other cultures, Indian for example, even God seems to be bound to VIDHI. He can’t escape from creation and destruction of what was created.

    How can we conclude that there is Unknowable entity. Is it not self contradicting. if the explanation speaks about, as example, incapability to experience higher dimensions then can we not experience the effects ? like the shadow of an eclipse that happens in 3 dimensions is only in 2 dimensions

    adding to this question pool 😉 , is this post an extension to your “Day 2- reality” pdf ?

    మెచ్చుకోండి

    1. Thanks. Thought requires images and symbols. These are stored in brain. Hence they are of past. If the mind is only in present the raw visuals and sensory inputs from external world are played on the screen called consciousness. Like a camera that just does not record but just shows the images.
      Life that has no thought also is still life since it has the fundamental properties of life like growth, reproduction, death etc. The non-life does not have these properties.

      God creating something and not able to control it is possible. But then his omnipotence(power) is questionable. And it almost makes him a mechanism. The question of who created God is always there..it can go into infinite loop.

      Conclusion is a big word.It’s a guess. It may remain a guess forever. But the acausal things like “vacuum fluctuations” and “origin of universe, or the origin of it’s origin” and so on point to humans hitting the limits of the usual rational understanding and imagination. Human as organisms have many limitations. If another dimension or some metaphysical entity is added, it could fill the gaps in the current understanding. String theory proposes 12 dimensions. It could be proved theoretically. But to prove it practically, is almost impossible. To prove it practically, we need to bring a 12 dimensional object into our three dimensional world. which is very tough.
      If we try to explain a blind man (by birth) about colors, he encounters all contradictions. If someone explains him Red is neither soft, nor hard, he may wonder how such a contradictory thing exists.Take a blind man trapped in a trench(by birth). He may listen the sounds of birds on the tree outside. He searches for the birds in the trench. All that he encounters is the walls of the trench. Then his question about the sounds is unanswered. To explain the sounds he has to assume that there is a world outside the trench. That clearshis question.
      Hypothesis, postulations and assumptions are part of maths and science. All these start with an assumption.(Disclaimer:I am not claiming my post is a scientific theory 🙂 )
      The events in 5 or 6 dimensions have their effect on 3 dimensions (epiphanies may be an example..may be). But with three dimensional experience you can’t capture everything that happens in 5th or 6th dimension.
      The basic trigger to this post is to demystify the epiphanies. Many people think the people who have epiphanies have experienced the ultimate phyical and absolute Truth.
      But I think absolute Truth is not reachable to humans (because of the limitations discused what soever..). The ultimate solution is not in idealism (bhavavaadam). It may be easy and convenient to slip into bhavavaadam and quote similarities between ancient texts and modern physical discoveries. Mostly this is done by idealists (bhaavavaadulu). But I beleive the solution is in New Materialism (or Meta physicalism). Ultimately mind and brain are part of this universe and travel along with it.

      మెచ్చుకోండి

  3. వ్యాసాన్ని ఆంగ్లంలో చక్కగా మలిచారు.

    If God is kind, the natural disasters and the subsequent destruction begs an explanation. If God is powerful, then his inability to change rules of nature stands unexplained.

    ఈ సృష్టికి కర్త భగవంతుడు అని; ఆయనకి సర్వ శక్తులు వున్నాయని అనుకుందాం; పైన పేర్కొన్న రెండు చరణాలకి సమాధానం చెప్పాలంటే, ఉదాహరణకి:

    * భగవంతుడు దయామయుడు. నన్ను సృష్టించాడు; నేను పెరుగుతూ, పెరుగుతూ, ఈ లోకంలోని అన్నీ సుఖాల్నీ అనుభవించాను; ముసలితనం వచ్చింది, ఏ పనీ చేయలేని దుర్భర స్థితి. అప్పుడు నేను, `దయామయుడైన ఓ భగవంతుడా! నాకు ఇంక మరణాన్ని ప్రసాదించు` అని వేడుకుంటాను. భగవంతుడు దయామయుడు కాకపోతే, నాకు మరణాన్ని ఇవ్వకపోతే, నా గతి ఏమికావాలి?

    * నేను శ్వాసద్వారా గాలిని లేదా ప్రాణవాయువుని పీల్చుకుంటాను. ఒకవేళ భగవంతుడు దయామయుడు కాదనుకోండి – లేదా దయామయుడు అయి, నామీద ప్రేమతో, గాలిని నిరంతరంగా నా ముక్కు మీదకే పంపించాడు అనుకోండి. అప్పుడు నా గతి ఏమిటి? ఊపిరి ఆడక ఒక్క క్షణంలోనే నా ప్రాణాలు పోతాయికదా!!!

    ఇప్పుడు చెప్పండి ప్రకృతి నియమాలను మార్చలేని అశక్తుడా భగవంతుడు?

    ఇకపోతే, భగవంతుడిని ఎవరు సృష్టించారు అన్నది మనకు అనవసరము మరియు తెలుసుకోలేనిది (Unknowable ). కానీ, ఆయనచే సృష్టింపబడిన పంచభూతాలనే మన ఋషులు భగవంతుని స్వరూపాలగా తెలుసుకోమన్నారు. `భగవంతుడు’ అంటే మనం కోరేది ఇవ్వగలవాడని అర్ధం. వాస్తవానికి, మనం కొరకుండానే, ఈ సృష్టిలో ఆయనచే అన్నీ ఇవ్వబడ్డాయి. కాదంటారా? ఆలోచించండి.

    మీ స్నేహశీలి,
    మాధవరావు.

    మెచ్చుకోండి

  4. ఈ మధ్య యుక్తేశ్వర్ గిరి (పరమ హంస యోగానంద గారి గురువు) గారు రాసిన ఒక పుస్తకం చదివాను. ఈ పుస్తకం చదవక ముందు, నేను సృష్టి గురించిన మన ప్రాచీన సాంప్రదాయవాదుల క్లెయింస్ ని అంత సీరియస్ గా పట్టించుకొనే వాడిని కాదు. కానీ ఈ పుస్తకం లో చెప్పిన కొన్ని విషయాలు ఆధునిక సైన్స్ సిధ్ధాంతాలకి చాలా దగ్గర గా ఉన్నాయి.
    ఉదాహరణ కు, అన్నిటికీ (లోకానికీ విశ్వానికీ మూలం గా) మూలం గా “ఓ తెలియని, తెలుసుకోలేని స్థితి” ని ఈ గిరి గారి పుస్తకం లోని వేద శ్లోకాలు ప్రతి పాదించాయి. తరువాత స్లోకాలు ఈ విశ్వం ఓ ప్రణవం అనే వైబ్రేషన్ నుంచీ వచ్చిందని చెప్పాయి. ఈ విషయం “స్ట్రింగ్ తీరీ లోని “స్ట్రింగ్ అనేక డిగ్రీ ఆఫ్ ఫ్రీడం లో వైబ్రేట్ అయితే, అనేక డైమన్షన్ ల లొ వస్తువులు పుట్టాయి”, అని చెప్పిన దానికి దగ్గర గా ఉంది. తరువాత ఇదే పుస్తకం, స్పేస్, టైం (దేశ కాలాలు) తో ఈ విశ్వం చేయబడి ఉంది అని చెప్తోంది.ఒక మూల కణం, శక్తి నుంచీ ఏర్పశటం..క్వార్క్స్ కి సిమిలర్ గా ఉంది. ఈ ప్రపంచం దేశ కాలాల లో లేదు. వాటొ తో తయారు చేయబడి ఉన్న ఓ కప్పు లాంటిది ఈ విశ్వం. ఇది కూడా ఐన్స్టీనుడి సాపేక్ష సిధ్ధాంతానికి దగ్గరగ ఉంది. అలానే సమయం యొక్క సాపేక్షత గురించి అప్పటికే వారికి ఒక అయిడియా ఉండటం కూడా ఆశ్చర్య కరమైన విషయం.
    అదే పుస్తకం లో అనేక అసంగతమైన విషయాలు కూడా ఉన్నాయి, సూర్యుడు బ్రహ్మ నాభి చుట్టూ తిరగటం, దానిని బట్టి యుగాలు ఏర్ప్డటం. యుగాలుముందుకు పోతున్న కొద్దీ జనాల స్పిరిట్యువల్ కెపాసిటీ పెరగటమూ మొ||.
    ఈ పుస్తకాలలోని స్లోకాల సోర్స్ ఇవ్వబడలేదు. అవి నిజం గా వేద స్లోకాలే అయితే, నిర్ద్వందం గా అవి నన్ను ఆశ్చర్య పరిచాయి. “వాటిని ఆ కాలం లో ప్రయోగాల ద్వారా కాకుండా, ఏదైన ప్రత్యక్షనుభవం వలన తెలుసుకొన్నారా?”, అనే ఆలొచన నా మనసు లో మొదటి సారి గా ప్రవేశించింది. నా ప్రయాణం కొన సాగుతుంది..నేను ఇంకా ఏ అభిప్రాయాలూ ఏర్పరచుకోలేదు.
    ఈ చక్రాలూ గట్రా, శరీరం లో వాటి లొకేషన్, వాటి పర్పస్ వగైరా ల గురించి ఒక్కొకరూ ఒక్కో విధం గా చెప్తారు. పిరమిడ్ ధ్యానం వారిది ఒక కథైతే, క్రియా యోగం వారిది వేరొక కథ. ఏదేమైనా ఓ సారి దిగి చూస్తే కానీ లోతు తెలియదు.
    పారలొకిక అనుభవాలూ, మహత్తులూ, పునర్జన్మా వీటి గురించికూడా అనేక పరస్పర విరుధ్ధమైన స్టోరీలున్నాయి. ఇవి సైన్స్ పరిధికి బయట ఉన్నాయంటారు. ఆ ముక్క సైన్స్ చెబితే కానీ నాకు వీటి గురించి నమ్మ బుధ్ధి కాదు. సైన్స్ తనకు తెలియని విషయాలని, “ఇంకా తెలియదని” ఒప్పుకోవటానికి సిధ్ధం గానే ఉంది అని నమ్ముతాను.
    మనిషి బుర్రకి బయట “ఓ తెలివి ఉన్న చేతన ఉంది”, అని ఈ పుస్తకాలు చెబుతున్నాయి. కానీ నాకు ఇంకా నమ్మకం కుదరటం లేదు.
    ఇదే ఓ పోస్ట్ కి సరిపడా విషయం. వీలున్నపుడు రాయాలి.

    మెచ్చుకోండి

  5. Isn’t possible that the misfiring the signals between the left and right hemispheres be the cause of the so called epiphany? Isn’t it possible that the part of the brain that is associated with creating-a-self-image, after having been confused to identify the source of the misfired signals simply gives up and feels that the sources somewhere there in the outer.

    Isn’t the epiphany same as what the people who take psychedelic drugs experience? Cause even they describe the same out of body experiences and experiences of transcendentalism. The experiences of self have been described by the people who have undergone open brain surgeries as well. What if the meditation is just a harmless (and addiction free) way of experiencing that the people who take LSD and/or PCP experience? Well! the brain scans seem not distinguish these two states of mind.

    మెచ్చుకోండి

  6. Coming to the question of “Is there God”, can someone say something like “if this happens then we can conclude God exists” rather than attributing the eventualities to God – like Mr. Madhavarao did?

    From the days of yore, “The Unknown” seems to the domain of God. Well if that’s the case, we shall say that the domain of God is certainly not a expanding one. In the earlier days, god-men used to say that God inflicts deceases as a punishment. After the science has proved that it’s the microbes that cause the deceases, the god-men took up the question of “God uses microbes to inflict deceases”. You can see the same trend almost every issue be it creation, calamities. Certainly the God word seem to on the trend of back-footing. Each time someone explains the cause, we seem to be saving the God by moving one step ahead also relegating the God to a much finer confinement. In short, modern day’s God is not the Cause (because science has been explain the cause), He is the One Who causes the Cause.

    There seem to be some confusion even among the believers regarding the ‘existence’ of God. some God-speaking speaking people have openly confessed that God was a creation.

    మెచ్చుకోండి

      1. Me lord, the “unknown” is getting narrower. Once, the cause of diseases belonged to the realm of the “unknown”. The people (and the philosophers) of those days thought that they could never explain the cause. One day Hippocrates happened, and now we know the cause is organic.

        To me, God seems to have been relegated to the waning area of the ignorance. Where there is ignorance, there is God. Where there is knowledge and certainty, we don’t seem to be bothering much about God 🙂

        మెచ్చుకోండి

        1. Agree with you about Unknown etc. The unknown with in human limitations will be uncovered in future. The unknown beyond human limitations will never be known. The ignorance of the things beyond human limitations will always be there. Accdng to your argument this implies God will always be there, though in a negative way.

          మెచ్చుకోండి

          1. “The unknown beyond human limitations” had been kept on changing (diminishing). The human limitations we have been talking about WILL NOT be the same after a decade. By the way, does God mean a notion that dwells in the gaps in the human understanding of the Nature? If so, God shall exist (almost) forever with his ever shrinking realm 🙂

            మెచ్చుకోండి

            1. I talked about limitations like man being 3 dimensional being,limited by time. Talked about the origins of universe entering causelesrealms-timeless realms. Man was not a 5 dimensional being thousands of years back. Man can’t become a 5 dimensional being after lakhs of years. So this unknowable realm will not shrink. Only unknown will shrink.

              మెచ్చుకోండి

                1. 1.It’s a mathematical formulation indeed. At the same time, quite some theories in cosmology still toy with a Universe of more than 4 dimensions. Truth/False-Not yet proven. eg: Super String theory.
                  2. Acausal (like vacuum fluctuations) actions have become part of quantum mechanics. A causeless world always is beyond human limits.
                  3. The limitations of human intelligence/imagination are well known. It is equally difficult to assume a causeless world, a world with no starting point, “an infinitely long-startless cause and effect chain”.
                  4. The phenomena/explanations within the Universe seem not sufficient to explain the cause of the Universe in a self sufficient way (given that space and time were created after start of Universe-As proposed by relativity)
                  I do not rule out the remote possibility that all these are conceptual paradoxes, that will be resolved by mankind eventually in the long long run. But my current tilt is towards- “perpetually unknowable”.
                  BTW–Do you have any reason to say humans do not have any limitations in understanding the entirety of the existence?

                  మెచ్చుకోండి

          2. I am a firm believer of the notion of God being a tool for procrastination if not the total abandonment of an explanation. When a theist says “God makes it happen”, that’s it! They have explained it! and they wouldn’t bother to check why that had happened. No explanation, experimenting or research.

            It’s because of a handful of curious people our civilization has achieved this level of knowledge quotient and we shall be indebted to them not to the ******** of God.

            మెచ్చుకోండి

  7. Awesome post Mr.Bondalapati. Thank you.

    as far as I gathered info, thought my self and analysed, I want to share few words here:

    We shouldn’t be left to bow down to anybody (as the self respect has its own value) even to GOD thing. In that case I should be free from anything called GOD. GOD cannot create something that is lower to him, that’s an insult to himself. So, I must be part of him visibly, and he must be on to me invisibly.

    And if we take that thing called GOD as something dancing (a dance thats not from a Robot, its creative in every move.. creative in the sense new…) towards something fun to him, and on the way danced as the physical world and landed as living beings and still danced to become humans and still dancing to have fun… and will continue to dance to next levels of his fun … good or bad, right or wrong …all dualities just something like results…dah dah dahhh….

    how is my analysis ???

    he is just like a big fat kid doing all kinds of stuff every where..

    మెచ్చుకోండి

    1. “The unknown beyond human limitations” had been kept on changing (diminishing). The human limitations we have been talking about WILL NOT be the same after a decade. By the way, does God mean a notion that dwells in the gaps in the human understanding of the Nature? If so, God shall exist (almost) forever with his ever shrinking realm 🙂

      మెచ్చుకోండి

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